The Vatican bells toll when a pope dies, yes? Did a pope die yesterday? Or was it merely a man who had totally abandoned the office?
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The Vatican bells toll when a pope dies, yes? Did a pope die yesterday? Or was it merely a man who had totally abandoned the office?
38 thoughts on “Vatican bells toll to mark the passing of … a pope?”
When was the last time anything Catholic came from the Vatican?
Please don’t lose your Catholic Faith. All of this evil was prophesized long, long ago (La Salette for one and probably Fatima too). Our Lord specifically told the first pope, St. Peter, that the gates of hell would never prevail over Holy Mother Church. Yeah, things have totally sucked since the evil spirit of vatican 2 reared its ugly head but, despite all of that, the Remnant Church marches on in defiance of the antichurch.
JAD, “the Remnant Church marches on in defiance of the antichurch.”
I agree wholeheartedly. But the question is where? I don’t believe the Catholic Church and the antiChurch co-exist in the same space as some claim. How would one know which one he was participating in?
The Remnant Church does indeed exist, but I think it’s with the valid clergy of the 58 sedes. We don’t get to pick and choose what to believe in the true Catholic Church…..and that is exactly what one must do if attached to the VII Church, most especially in regards to the papacy.
I have not lost my Catholic faith since becoming sede, it has in fact, increased. I’ll be honest though and say it’s been more difficult, but I’m quite certain I know why.
Happy New Year and God Bless.
You too Debbie. It is a tough situation indeed. At this point, I think anyone who sincerely thinks Jorge Bergoglio is the pope is in danger of losing their faith. Those bishops carrying out his satanic agenda (i.e. Cupich, Burbidge, etc.) have made their choice and they’ve chosen the antichurch which is tragic. Those are two great examples: Cupich is a nasty man and from what I gather, always has been. On the other hand, Burbidge had so much promise but either out of weakness/effeminacy or blackmail, has turned into a wolf. Both of those men and countless others are going to have to answer to God one day why they abandoned their sheep and we should all be worried for them.
Personally, I only attend the Traditional Latin Mass and when I can’t, I’ll go well out of my way for an Eastern Rite Divine Liturgy. During the former’s Te Igitur, if it’s done correctly, we can’t hear who the priest is commemorating as the holy father. I’d like to think that the priests who say the Masses I attend were saying Benedict but I don’t know. What I do know though is that those Masses are valid even if they erroneously say “Francis” like the priest did at the Divine Liturgy I attended on Christmas. I cringed when he said that but the consecration was valid so Our Lord did come down to bless us with his Real Presence.
For what it’s worth, I think all the popes during and since Vatican 2 have been valid popes but very, very flawed – some more than others. I hope that the intense suffering John Paul II endured in his final years, along with his prayers, helped to purify him of the horrific things he did such as world youth day, alter girls and that wicked event at Assisi. The fact that he did as best as he could to genuflect in such pain (which antipope Bergoglio can’t do with just a few extra pounds) gives me hope. As much damage as JP2 did, I still loved him and prayed for him. Same for Pope Benedict who I hope died in a state of grace and will be in the Kingdom of Heaven some day.
Speaking of Pope Benedict… I think his passing will soon clarify whether he was a pope or not. I say this because I think all hell if going to break loose now that he’s gone because the holy father is the great restrainer from the Book of Thessalonians.
I don’t believe the Catholic Church and the antiChurch co-exist in the same space as some claim.
Why not? Biden was never legitimately elected because of the fraudulent voting. Yet, he occupies the same space that a legitimate president would. The White House is still there, as is DC and the entire apparatus of government. Both the government and the usurping anti-government occupy the same space. Bit eerie how the sacred and the secular often mirror each other.
Sorry, I don’t believe the Son of God shares the same space with the devil. How, exactly, would one know which liturgy one was participating in? To my knowledge, no one has ever answered this. Can you?
The reason I give for this to be impossible is the Immaculate Conception.
Were the Borgia popes like the Immaculate Conception?
Idk Mark. Were they heretics? Preach a false gospel? Were there bastardized Masses in the 15th and 16th centuries? Any doubts as to the validity of the Sacraments?
And if a heretic can be a valid pope, what is the point?
Lastly, can you answer me if the Catholic Church and antiChurch currently co-exist in the same space, how does one know which liturgy one is participating in?
The Son of God shared this Earth with many devils, one His own disciple. Or did the devils suddenly abandon Earth when He incarnated?
You don’t believe that evil has ever happened in the Church? Have you ever read Church history? Saint Peter shared the same space as Jesus, and denied Him. 3 times. That was evil. All the Borgias.
The fact is, you find it hard to believe that the Church and the anti-Church could occupy the same space because that obliterates the justification for your little cult’s existence. But of course the Church historically has had evil men running things. It’s just a fact.
There is a battle going on for the soul of Jesus’ Church, and the Sedes have chosen their side. They chose it long ago. They refuse to fight.
Jmy1975, of course there are evil men doing evil deeds in the Church. What I vehemently dispute is that valid popes can give the sheep evil doctrines. Lead us astray. Be the cause of the mass apostasy we see with our own eyes. No! That is not a possibility from the true Church of Christ or her popes. If it were possible, it would make the papacy totally useless.
Don’t disagree but which valid Pope gave what evil doctrine? V II, for its errors, did not establish any new doctrine and explicitly disclaims having done so.
Today, when they rang the bells for the deceased pope. When is the last time the Sedes did anything Catholic? They’ve been outside of the church for 60 years. Which means whatever clown mass you go to isn’t valid.
The Church is ONE. It must be healed from within.
This is why I didn’t want you to go sede. Because when you go sede and eventually realize that it is a dead-end you will stop believing in Catholicism altogether.
I will say that at Vatican II communist and masonic forces started taking over the church openly in preparation for the New World Order. They did all sorts of nonsense and pretended to do it in the name of Vatican II. The bankers replaced the pope with one of their choosing. The One World Church coming soon (I think) will be headed by the false prophet. My guess is it will happen after the nuclear war, to create “peace”. Everyone who refuses and keeps preaching religious exclusivity will be branded a terrorist and enemy of peace. We can already see the infrastructure for the mark of the beast being laid as CBDCs that will need a 24-7 accessible digital ID in the future.
Now I have told you how I’ve pieced the puzzle together so far, and I may be wrong, will you be able to accept that Apocalypse 12-13 is not in some vague future but now? Jesus said always be ready and people who say that don’t actually believe what they say they do and will be shocked at the Warning.
I don’t know why this confuses the Sedes: He was apope once. And he wasn’t deposed, he abdicated, so he can still be honored in death as a pope. You are building an argument on straw. And if I can be canonized after having voodoo witch doctors dance in the Vatican, then he certainly can be canonized after merely retiring to avoid facing the homos.
I didn’t offer an argument, and I’m not Sede (1958). The bells toll when the pope dies. He was supposedly not pope at all. Distinctions matter.
There are many traditional Catholics today on social media bemoaning being “abandoned” and “betrayed” by Pope BXVI when he resigned and the current regime was imposed on the Church.
I have a different belief, or baseless hope, if you will.
I loved Pope BXVI, with the same devotion many held for Pope St. JPII. Pope BXVI had more impact on my life as a Catholic than any other pope of my lifetime.
In Charity, I’ve always assumed he had a mystical experience, in which he was instructed to silently step aside, so that all might spring forth which had somewhat been in hiding up till then. I truly feel he thought he was doing God’s Will.
If that was the case – a mighty big IF – then what he did was truly heroic and courageous, especially knowing that those who loved him most would feel betrayed and abandoned, and he could never in this life defend himself or explain why he did what he did.
He never struck me as a man who would flee for his life or personal reputation or that of close family or friends.
Regardless, please be charitable towards him now. Pray for the repose of his soul. Do not speak poorly of the dead, at least not today.
Yes. I have had the same thought. Maybe it’s baseless opitimism but the man clearly thought he was doing what God commanded. My thought about that was “well maybe he received his marching orders, and that’s why he stepped back?” Lord knows.
But the evil that has been released was incipient already. That’s what I keep coming back to. Bergoglio’s antipontificate has made the rot obvious and undeniable to men of good will.
The point I keep coming back to this: If Pope Benedict had not done whatever it is that he did, we would never have known the depth of evil at the very top of the Church. It exploded onto the scene almost immediately upon his non-departure.
“……we would never have known the depth of evil at the very top of the Church.”
I don’t think so. The sedes have been on it for over 50 years, but the NO media, using the Alinsky tactics, have kept Catholics away from and scared of SVism. Did you know that Pope Leo XIII declared the Anglican episcopal consecrations invalid for the same reasons the NO consecrations are invalid? I just learned of this today.
It comes down to Legitimate Authority. And by the way, you’d be surprised at some of the errors of Pope Leo XIII, though I do love him.
There ought to be a Godwin’s law type rule that any discussion about the Church, when lasting 14 seconds or longer, will inevitably result in one party or another calling someone a Sede. It’s ridiculous and unproductive and only used to make the offending party feel good about himself.
The ’58 Sedes have some excellent points that don’t require one to be a ’58er, points that desperately need to be examined and investigated. The ’58ers are willing to look at the ugly and did some serious legwork, that most non-’58ers aren’t willing or academically honest enough to do. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Jesus is coming soon, and continuing with this Alinsky-esque namecalling nonsense isn’t serving anyone well, and it only seems to mainly flow in one direction.
The 58Sedes have some excellent points, and many anti-Sedes dishonestly dismiss their solid points. I’ll say that much. The topic is too big for the combox.
Hello Mark, Thank you for “saying that much” and acknowledging the “58Sedes have some excellent points and many anti-Sedes dishonestly dismiss their solid points.”
I hope Ms. Barnhardt follows your lead.
Agreed, the topic is too big for the combox.
The only point the Sedes had was that Vatican 2 was awful, evil, wrong. Everything else is schism. Imagine Paul , when he disagreed with Peter, starting his own church. That’s what the sedes have done.
But Paul was smart enough to understand that the Church is Jesus’ Church. Sedes haven’t gotten to that point yet.
It’s worthy of a roundtable podcast with no time limit. I’m a newly-minted ’22-not-’58 Sede, but I’m not ruling anything out. Let’s put it all on the table.
Because I was headed towards SVism and was afraid of the position, I was begging for this roundtable podcast for almost a year. Then I actually read their arguments and it sounded oh so Catholic. The lack of graces from so very few valid Masses explains societies worldwide deep dive into hell these past 60+ years. The mass apostasy. Assisi. All the rotten fruit from VII cannot, imo, come from valid popes or the true Catholic Church. I see JPII/Benedict as Republicans and Francis as Democrats. Republicans are far more dangerous than Dems in that the former are wolves in sheep’s clothing, the ladder, easily identifiable wolves.
The mass apostasy did not begin with Bergoglio; it was well on its way decades earlier….and who was there every step of the way? Ratzinger. No way can he be both the destroyer and the restrainer.
I would probably be a ’58 sede if not for four objections that would need to be satisfactorily overcome.
1) Visibility. The Pope Benedict/Bergoglio situation was visible to all; ’58 sedeism relies on gnosis and “hidden teaching”, which is not Catholic.
2) Shall Not Prevail. The ’58 sede position might have been reasonable for several years, or even a decade or two, after; but over 70 years later it starts to look much less reasonable. If the ’58 sede position is correct, what does the gates of Hell prevailing ACTUALLY look like? Because from my seat, if correct, the gates of Hell have prevailed.
3) Demons. Exorcisms still function and require the permission of the local bishop. Strong proof in favor of the continuity of the Church and the validity, however defective, of the post-VII rites.
4) Personal experience. Which I will keep mostly private, but still counts.
I wholeheartedly agree that the ’58 sedes have some excellent points. I agree with almost everything except for the conclusion they come to. I think we need a new class now..the ’22 sedes. I think I’m there.
If we’re keeping track of visible and lack of visible signs…
No red shoes on Benedict’s body.
Might also make poetic sense, as by his run-away actions, he possibly refused martyrdom.
A sign of a half-pope? The red vestments. But not the red shoes.
I take it to mean the shoes that signify the blood of the martyrs if a sign of Benedict’s decision not to die as a martyr.
Also notably it once again highlights Francis’s refusal to wear them.
We need to ask ourselves… surely someone in the Vatican is making decisions, perhaps even out of preference for Benedict… They decided to ring the bells. They decided to dress him in Papal red. But deliberately ommitted the signature red shoes?
Perhaps the opposition would argue likewise that if the shoes were on, then the Barnhardt PleniBenedicantists would just grow about them being a visible sign anyway, because we’re looking for excuses to interpret anything in our favor…
But the point remains that if the Vatican has made the decision to go ahead and give the emeritus a usual Papal presentation, then why omit these? Maybe it was just convenient oversight… But maybe Heaven is telling us more about what possibly went on behind the scenes… Benedict XVI may have been threatened by the wolves, and gave in rather than die… That is certainly not a flattering thing to suggest, but certainly not many of us have the cajoles to talk as if we’d take the narrow road either.
I take it as a sign. But that’s just me.
“The answer appears to be a mixture of papal rites. Buried in the papal red, his body was adorned with many features reserved for a pope, but not all: the characteristic red shoes worn by Benedict as pope were replaced by black ones.”
These people couldnt find a black cassock in rome, they certainly couldnt find red shoes.
2023 is off to an awful start. NFL player may have just died on the field. CPR for 10 mins. Never happened before. Bergoglio’s Pachamama , through Trump/Biden/Fauci’s shot, manufactured by Bill Gates’ company is slaking her thirst.
This year is going to be hell.
Been reading online everyone’s opinion on the “Benedict-is-still-Pope” position. It is really… Sad.
Matt Fradd on his twitter recently said, “Make no bloody mistake about it, it is an act of schism (and therefore a grave sin) for a Catholic to deny the papacy of Pope Francis…”
He went on to say that those who followed such thoughts were now sedevacantists.
1. We are not 1958 sedevacantists.
2. The Seat of Peter is now Vacant, so by the strictest definition, yes I am NOW a “sedevacantist.”
3. We are now in a period of “interregnum” and once bergoglio resigns, or dies, then the See of St. Peter will no longer be vacant.
4. He really doesn’t want to, nor has he any anyone else in the “popular Catholic media”, has ever taken Barnhardt’s and Mazza’s arguments seriously. He says they start from “a false premise” but never says WHAT THAT IS. Compare that with Barnhardt, who lays out her arguments rather well in hours-long video for anyone on Earth to watch.
5. Many of the people talking about Mr. Fradd’s post are very confused as to why anyone would call bergoglio a heretic. They seem to be horribly catechized, and terribly uninformed about his many actions and abuses over the last 2-3+ years, a terrible combination: bergoglio is a bad Catholic, and people don’t know that he’s a bad Catholic, and they are UNABLE to know he’s a bad Catholic (Fruit of Vatican 2 if you ask me).
Maybe because they’re bad Catholics as well….
Same reason people who should know better or whose job it is to make inquiries and investigate do their best to ignore the covid/vaccine or election theft scandals despite how obvious everything is.
1. Follow the money. Their career is at risk from speaking out.
2. Life is comfortable, why make it difficult?
3. You’re gonna lose a lot for doing the right thing and it may never make any difference during your lifetime, so why even bother when it’s futile.
It is also possible that some people who are normally clever can oft be idiots. Pride and all that, but sometimes the wise overcomplicate things that the simple can easily see.
The 58 sedes do have a lot of good points, as does Barnhardt from some of the intense essay reading I’ve been doing on the subject lately. I understand 58 sede position until they’ve told me my entire family that is deceased is in Hell for going to a Novus Ordo, and lacking in complete and total understanding of every detail of the Church. 20 years ago I didn’t know the mass I attended was so lacking, that the errors of the church were occurring. Some of us are new to the Trad crowd. Barnhardt and Mazza, from what I’ve read and listened, have a lot of historical knowledge that makes more sense than pope John Paul 2nd being the antichrist.
Yes, seek the truth. But don’t tell me my Godmother is in hell for errors she did not know about. She cared enough about my soul to have me join the church and made darn sure I stayed Catholic.
Who put on the wrong shoes? Hmmm.
I always thought Benedict’s resignation might have been a part of shortening the times, for the sake of the elect as Scripture says.